In Conversation With: amaka.

Finding a place through music, creative processes, chasing sounds, battling doubts, and a vision for the future - the Canadian songstress amaka. shares a conversation with PITCH Magazine.

Photographer + Editor: Arman Sadrzadeh

Stylist: Kaylah Wilson

Wardrobe: Velvet Jewel Gown - KH Luxury Boutique; Jewelry - Stylist own; Shoes - Stylist own

Makeup: Malaika Lorde

Interview: Angelo Grant

Transcription: Malaika Manda + Koko Sanginga

Angelo: So, amaka., do you want to introduce yourself?

amaka.: Sure. My name is amaka. - “the Queenette” is gone now. I think that’s been made official last week. I’m… oh! I decided I’m going to be like Charlotte Day Wilson or someone and you just never know the age, it’s just vague. Yeah, so I’m in my twenties and just graduated nursing school. I’ve been doing music for a while, and started recording music maybe when I was 19, just starting school. So it’s been a journey living this double life. And yeah, I’m in Pickering, so Toronto-adjacent. What else? I don’t know what else but yeah that’s me, basically just a suburbanite, I guess!

Angelo: Okay, how did you start out creating music?

amaka.: It was pretty organic like it was just so… I was born in Nigeria, and even when I went back a couple years ago… like the second you hop off the plane people are singing, people are interacting, and it’s just warm and music is like everywhere, it’s in everything so it doesn’t feel like… it doesn’t feel like a decision to make, it just feels like what it is. So, I think like that.

And then when I came here I was very shy, and I think doing art cafes and whatever music classes was just something I could latch onto and be like, “In this specific thing, I don’t feel… whatever negative feelings come with being a new immigrant in your formative years.” Music made me feel the opposite of that. So, I kinda just held on for dear life to my music teachers and joined every choir that I could and all that stuff, and maybe around 15 started writing songs - not on purpose, not with intent - just because. It just felt so right and so easy.

Angelo: That’s so special. And then from there you said you started recording at 19?

amaka.: Yeah, school was a very big part of that because I was in the music programs, all that stuff. In high school I met some of my best friends, like Joshua Stanberry who’s the producer that I work with on everything - right hand man, bestie, just love that guy. He’s in school for audio engineering, so I always tell him, “You’re my biggest resource I accidentally stumbled upon!” So it’s just wonderful. He’ll help me track everything, he’s like an engineer. I’m like “Bro, without you, what am I?” Like, I’ll come to him with a quick little two chord situation with a melody and lyrics, whatever, and he’ll be like, “What about we do ‘next thing’” and I’m like, “Oh… okay, let’s do that!” So yeah, meeting him in high school was awesome.

It’s just so wonderful when we talk now ‘cause, then we thought we knew what we were doing, then with each passing year we were like, “Oh we knew nothing!” So yeah, he’s been integral, and then just getting to play with other musicians and stuff in the jazz choirs, jazz bands, anything like that. Any ensemble I was ready to jump into. Then one day I was just like, “Let’s just make an EP.” I think I was in my first year of university, and I was just on the phone with Josh and I just said like, “Dude, like let’s just do it. I wonder what it’s like when I make a body of work, what does that sound like?” Then he just went, “Okay” and we started.

Angelo: Yeah, that sounds really natural as well. It sounds like this whole thing has been pretty organic like you described. So, what was it like putting out your first project, Vacant EP?

amaka.: It was interesting. I was so nervous, I’m always so nervous, like the day before release I’m probably in my room crying, like, “Nobody’s gonna like it!” It was definitely nerve-wracking but I was just excited to see… like it’s the first thing so you don’t have too many people's opinions just yet, you’re kind of anticipating - it’s kind of like an experiment, like you’re testing the waters. So it wasn’t too much stress of like, trying to meet anything, it was just kind of like, “I hope they like this, ‘cause I like this!”

Yeah, and putting it out was definitely nerve-wracking, but I did it with my friends, so there was a lot of support there, and then when it came out there was a good amount of support that I just was not even expecting. So yeah, great experience all-around.

“Fleeting, Inconsequential was the acceptance that everything ends, and time will continue moving forward regardless of your, you know, your struggles, your pain, whatever - but that doesn’t have to be such a depressing thing.”

Angelo: Okay cool. So I was also wondering how you went from Vacant to the next one, which was Fleeting, Inconsequential, creatively?

amaka.: So, I think Vacant was the end of like… or like an- not even the end… it was the acceptance of something at the time, and at the time I think it was the acceptance of… like I had started to get an understanding of traits of mine that I didn’t like. Like a hyper-dependence and certain attachment things, and I was just so… I guess shadow work began that year, we’ll say. And things in myself that I didn’t love to see, and I think Vacant was me addressing all of that. Maybe not all of it, but a good amount of it the best I could with what I knew at the time with my 19-year-old brain. 

And I think just learning how I operated in love, and in life, and in that season of entering university and making the decision not to pursue music right out of high school.  There was just a lot of, “Who am I?” Very existential, that’s what that was.

And then Fleeting, Inconsequential was the acceptance that everything ends, and time will continue moving forward regardless of your, you know, your struggles, your pain, whatever- but that doesn’t have to be such a depressing thing. ‘Cause I’m very existential, I guess. Nihilistic, we’ll say. Like, I don’t know. I want to believe in so much, but at the end of the day sometimes I just have to sit there and go *closes eyes, clasps hands and exhales heavily*.

So yeah, Fleeting, Inconsequential was the acceptance of… these experiences that you have, sure, they’re unique to you, but they are a blip in the grand scheme of things. And I think I had either just ended a relationship or was in a weird spot where I was just very confused, but letting myself be confused, if that makes any sense.

Creatively, though, for making it, me and Josh just… I had a house in Ottawa… my roommates were all gone - it was reading week or something. We just camped out there, watched so much of The Office, and then every day we were like, “Alright, let’s go,” and then boom, two songs just kind of came out.

Angelo: I love it. ‘Cause I feel like, you’re telling me about your inspiration and how you were feeling around this project - I hear that when I listen to Fleeting, Inconsequential. Especially when I listen to Ceilings and I hear the hook on that one, like, I love that so much. That’s just such a bar to me.

Because this was a visual EP - how do you come up with visuals to match, or do you even try and match the music? How did that come about?

amaka.: I don’t know how this will sound but a lot of the time I’ll - I feel so dramatic saying this - but I’ll literally dream up a scene or something. Like I remember specifically waking up one day in 2019 and being like, “That’s what I want to see.” Like I hate doing this sentence style because it sounds so visionary, and I’m just so not - it’s all very kind of random and then I build on it and it’s quite a logical process. But, the seed is usually like a quick-  something will come to me and I’m like, “Oh, that, that that that,” I’ll pinpoint that and let it kind of grow. And I find that once I start writing then it’ll tend to grow. If I overthink it, then it won’t. Like if it’s just in here, *holds head* and I’m like, “Oh, what would I wanna see next,” but if I write it down, then it’s gonna just outpour.

And then when it comes to visuals, I do map it out. I could tell you, my last video, “Call Him Yellow”, I have a piece of paper somewhere where I was like, “from this second to this second, I want to see this. From this second to this second I want to see this.” Like I could’ve died and someone could’ve remade that video, because it’s just so… you know? So, it’s like that, I’m kind of micromanaging in that - that’s my personality I think. So yeah, it starts with a little vision, and then we just let it grow by writing it out.

Angelo: Is that how you write your songs also?

amaka.: I’ve just started keeping my phone near me when I’m in the shower because so many ideas come in the shower and I’m like sprinting to go record it. It’s just so peaceful in there, oh my god. It’s so peaceful. I do my best thinking, I’m so relaxed, and when I’m relaxed, that’s how I write my songs. But I’ll usually force myself to sit at a piano if it’s been a while, I’m like “Yo, you haven’t written anything in like, months, go sit down.” Then I’ll do that and something will happen. It usually won’t be amazing, but it’s something and it gets the movement happening and the muscles flexing.

Angelo: Okay cool. I also wanted to ask you what your inspirations are. Who or what, I guess I should say.

amaka.: I find with this question, I will say, I can always find that - it’s been a while since I’ve done an interview, for sure - but I remember back when I started off, everyone would be like, “So, Erykah Badu and Lauryn Hill, yeah?” And I just started making that my answer, I was like, “Yeah, sure.” Like, sure, I know what you wanna hear, sure. I think those are some of the most beautiful, genius artists, but I found them quite late. So, a lot of my inspirations, I think they’re more in sounds, they’re not necessarily in people. It’s just sounds like - oh, if I was gonna say people then yes, Erykah Badu and the neo-soul, synth-heavy all that stuff, but like James Blake is like just, aghhh *close eyes, shakes heads and clenches fists*, inject it in my veins! He’s just so sonically interesting and that's more of what I’m chasing these days.

Angelo: So would you say you set out to create a particular sound when you’re creating music or does that come organically? 

amaka.: Before, I would say it came organically. Now, there is more intention with it. Yeah, I am definitely chasing. I’m not there yet, but I’m finding it for sure. I just can’t wait to find the perfect team of people that will help me reach it, but in the meantime we do our best and we just chase the sound as much as we can; try to get as much done with who I know and what I have. But it’s very specific, I don’t know, it is like the soul, for sure, but with alternative influence as well. I just want things to be interesting - not stagnant. Like that Solange meets James Blake meets I-don’t-frickin-know. We’ll find it. But yeah, there is definitely an intention now to really tap into something else. 

Angelo: Yeah, I like that. I wanted us to switch gears a little bit and ask how you overcome doubts? 

amaka.: I don’t, is the answer. I don’t know that I have, I don’t think that I have at all. I just keep moving. That’s literally it. I don’t know, if I have to do something, I will just get it done. The doubts will be there and I will just keep moving regardless. I don’t really have a special plan for it. Or talking to someone about it - usually it is good to have people there to be like “yeah, shut up. You’re a star. This and this sounds great. Your ideas are wonderful.” It’s obviously very, very nice. But inwardly? The external validation is so wonderful but sometimes the internal validation just isn't there. So, yeah, I just do what I have to do. I don’t mean that in an unhealthy way; it just is. Like I’m about to go on stage, even on this tour that I just did, I’m about to go onstage and all that’s running through my mind is “who fucked up and suddenly, you’re on this stage here? Who made an actual mistake because why are you here?” And I just go “well, I’m here.” And then I just keep moving. 

Angelo: So would you say that you push yourself to keep creating, to keep putting out music, and performing? 

amaka.: For sure. Absolutely. 

Angelo: I know you did mention feeling drained for the year in terms of creative things. How do you feel you came to that point? 

amaka.: Well, it’s not been bad because this year has had so much good. It’s just like I mentioned, I’ve just finished school and there’s a nursing exam, it’s called the NCLEX. It’s the exam that you write to get your license. So I just think I had planned my whole fall, winter, early spring around that - and we’re in the winter bit already and I still haven’t been able to be successful on that exam. So it’s just that feeling of like “oof. I’ve spent five years on this degree, is it going to amount to nothing?” And then the more effort I put into that, the less I feel I’m putting into music. 

And so while the music stuff is happening, I feel like I’m only experiencing it with half of my mind and the other half of me is just stressed to complete the nursing era. I just felt like the plan was - pass this exam, start working as a nurse, and then we’ll have a budget for music, then spend fall and winter just recording for this next project. 

So being unsuccessful with the exam, and having to wait - there is a waiting period and all that stuff. Things have just been set back. So it’s just the feeling of “this wasn’t the plan. Dadadada…” So while music stuff is happening and I’m moving through it; it just feels like there’s unfinished business on this end. But music-wise, I think it’s also like the disappointment of another year has passed and I didn’t release anything - I haven’t released anything since like fricking 2020–  well 2021. It’s not bad. It’s not bad but I just had so many plans for this year and I feel like… I’m just frustrated. 

So that’s where the exhaustion is coming from. It’s coming from the feeling that I could have done more music-wise. Even though this year has been wonderful, it’s just that I didn’t meet the things that I wanted to. That’s just weighing a bit heavy. 

Angelo: Yeah. I think I can somewhat understand that. When things don’t go completely as planned, it can be really hard. I know for me, what was it, 2021, I put out two issues and I was excited to keep it going. People were loving it. Now I’m studying. I started studying medicine at UofT, and it’s just like I got so busy. 

amaka.: Pardon me? 

Angelo: Yeah, I’m doing medicine at UofT right now. But I got so caught up with school and just trying to stay afloat, just because of how demanding it is. And then it’s like this whole year went by and I didn’t put out anything really. So I was always, in the back of my mind, feeling like I had all these people that were down for these issues and wanted to keep it pushing and I just kind of had everything on pause for a little. 

But as soon as I started back up, like just recently, I found that everyone is still here you know? Everybody is still super supportive and everything. So yeah. Even though things didn’t go exactly the way I wanted, with the same timeline, I’ve found that it’s been okay. 

And I feel like, I don’t know, as a fan of your music, however long it's going to take. Someone like me and all these other people are going to be here when things go down the way you want them to. 

amaka.: Very sweet. Thank you. 

Angelo: Of course. So, you mentioned going on tour? 

amaka.: Mhm. 

Angelo: How was that? 

amaka.: It was really fun. It was only a couple dates but I still count it. It was really awesome. So surreal and, like, just so random. Like on a random Friday, me and my friends - or me and my managers, I guess - just drove to Chicago… like what? And then we were in Detroit and then back to Toronto. Just so random; which I think I liked. There was no big, what's the word, ceremony. It wasn’t very ceremonious. It was just like “alright. Hop in my mom’s van and drive.” So, that was really fun. 

Hearing the origin story of how it came to be was just interesting. Some dude in Detroit heard my music and showed it to Charlie Burg, the artist. And then Loony’s manager is friends with Charlie’s manager or something, and they were discussing something at some point about needing openers and my name- I don’t know man. It was like a venn diagram and just like right in the center: me. Me. Which is perfect, I love it. I didn’t have to do anything. 

Yeah, so that was just sick, like hearing that. My favorite thing was doing the excursions. Being in a new city and being like “what are we going to do today? What museum will we go to today, or an art gallery?” And just the fact that my music was the reason that I was in these cities. Like, Yes. That is the only thing that I want now. It is the only thing that I want now. That’s literally it. It was very, very fulfilling, very validating, very nice to end this year's music run off on. 

Angelo: Yeah, I love that. It makes me happy that you enjoyed it. 

How do you feel when you’re performing? If that’s something you can describe.

amaka.: When I settle into it, it feels like - the way I’ve described it to a friend is that I feel like on a day-to-day basis I’m operating on maybe 50% amaka.. Like power, energy. And then on stage it’s dialed up to like 90. I don’t know if I’ve touched 100 yet, but like 80-90. In the first maybe 2 songs, I did find on tour that for the first two songs I’m very in my head. But I’ve done it long enough that the audience wouldn’t perceive that, I hope. I’ve asked people and they’ve been like “Oh, I couldn’t tell. You just look like you have great stage presence and dadadadada” because I’ve done it long enough that the movements come naturally to me. I think they always have but I think they’re more refined now.

But maybe by song 3 and I settle into it I’m like “oh, this exactly where I’m supposed to be. This is what I’m supposed to be doing.” And that is such a good feeling. That is such a good feeling. It’s a great feeling and I love it and I feel very myself when I do it. It’s a very “release your inhibitions” type beat. 

Angelo: What kind of impact do you want your music to have?

amaka.: I think the fact that I can play my music for my parents, my parents’ friends, my friends’ parents, and they can enjoy it and that I can go ahead and play it for a group of 17 year old to 20 year olds, whatever, and anywhere in between and they can find something in it - to me that’s really, really special and really, really important. And I do remember the first time I ever released music a friend of mine being like “just make sure 20 years from now you’re still proud of it.” I don’t like that sentence because how am I supposed to know? And if we all made things just so our future selves would like it… So I don’t fully agree with that.

But it was a sentiment to be like - yes, focus on the longevity of this. So I think the effect that I would like it to have is just something that could not fade out. And if it does, that’s fine. But it can be revisited and still reach people, still touch people, have them relate to it and feel something, anything. I just want people to not feel like shit has to be so perfect. My goal with the next project is to be more… let’s say more vulnerable. Because I am vulnerable in a way where I’ll say things but I know it’s only half-truths. I want to be more vulnerable because I want people to know that it just doesn’t have to be so perfect and linear. 

Angelo: I think when I listen to some of your stuff, I feel like I can relate to some of that– some of the things that we don’t really talk about with other people. It’s cool to hear someone like yourself (speak about these things), and it's dope music.

I was gonna ask you, next steps, what are you thinking about, with music or anything else? 

amaka.: Okay, next steps, pass this goddamn nursing exam*. Get that money up and then just I would love to get an Airbnb with 3 of my favorite musicians, for like a week or two and this is all we do. I just want to really lock in and just finish the project. Like it’s so simple, I have all the ideas mapped out to a T. I have a document that’s just like, song by song, feeling by feeling, marketing strategies, things I want, like merch I want to create; it is all written down and mapped out, I just need to get past this point. 

Angelo: Oh my gosh, I’m actually— I’m actually ready.

amaka.: That’s so sweet man, thank you. I too am ready, I’m so ready.

Angelo: So, do you have a dream collaboration?

amaka.: James Blake. I’m so sorry. James Blake and Charlotte Day Wilson, yeah. I just think that sonically they’re just so interesting. Let me think. Oh, okay I have a good one, Mereba. Final answer.

Angelo: Okay, love it. And then the last one is what is your favorite song of yours?

amaka.: Oh of mine? That’s so sweet. Probably ‘Ceilings’. Let me go look at my discography… forgotten every song I’ve ever written. But yeah I think it’s got to be ‘Ceilings’ or ‘Independent’. But ‘Ceilings’ we’re landing on ‘Ceilings’.

Angelo: ‘Ceilings’, explain that one.

amaka.: Because of that ending. The “under this skin you’ll find my true age”. That came to me in like two minutes, I don’t know, me and Josh had gotten the song so far and I was like I want something. I want an outro like in ‘White Ferrari’, like what Frank does (that’s probably my favourite song by the way in case you’re wondering). Yeah, I wanted an outro like that and I sat down and I was like ‘what do I want to say?’. And within like two minutes, it just came. It was one of the times when I wrote something and it rocked me— like it actually rocked me to my core. I just had to sit there and, I don’t know, it was a beautiful, beautiful experience writing that. Getting into a recording moment and being this close to the mic because I wanted it so intimate. I love ‘Ceilings’, I love ‘Ceilings’, mostly because of that outro yeah.

Angelo: Yeah, I really like the outro too, when I was watching the visual EP, that really stood out to me, that ending part. Loved that so much. That line ‘five to nine’ and you say it twice, I loved that so much.

amaka.: Oh stop, no stop! I literally love that, thank you for making that distinction. I guess I should start re-promoting ‘Fleeting, Inconsequential’.

Angelo: Yeah for real, that whole project, the two songs, more people need to hear that. 

amaka.: Thank you very much.

We’re proud to share that, since this interview was conducted, amaka. has successfully passed her NCLEX!